Power for multi loop, multi train layout

[rick486]

I have a question with regard to power requirements for the layout below. This will be the Christmas layout in the living room and consists of two separete (but connected by switches) loops + sidings for second train. All trains are TMCC equipped and will be operated via the TMCC remote. My desire is to have two trains running per loop (4 trains total). I have one TMCC CAB-1 controller and one TMCC Command Base. I also have two (2) 80 watt (CW-80) transformers. My questions are these

1. Are the two CW-80s enough watts to run 4 trains on the two loops if I put one transformer per loop?

2. If the loops are joined by switches (i.e., electrically connected) will the single TMCC Command Base be able to communicate with the trains on either loop?
http://forum.ogauge.org/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=97

Note: in the above layout, the lighter shaded track are sidings for the second train on each loop.

3. I was wondering if instead of the CW-80s, I should get a 180 watt PowerHouse coupled to a Direct Lockon (both shown below) and will this eliminate the need for a "TMCC Command Base"?
http://forum.ogauge.org/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=104

4. Additionally, I would like to add the switch controller to operate the switches and the block controller to electrify the sidings when desired, both shown below. Will these work with the 80 watt CW-80s or #3 above; or ???
http://forum.ogauge.org/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=103

As you can see, all this electronic power options has me confused and Lionel catalogue doesn't make it any easier.

See also my "Tricked Out 0-27 Polar Express" in Show and Tell

Thanks,
Rick

[rkneisel]

Wow..... now that is one Christmas layout. Your tree must be reeeeeeaaaaallllyyyy big!!!!!!:D I run DCS with a Command Base attached. I have basically two loops connected and run these with a PW ZW. I can run 4 trains at one time with this set up. I use another old Lionel transformer to operate most of the accessories and the switches that I have on the layout. I am only conjecturing here, but I would believe that your CW-80's might be a bit short on power. I hope that someone with more strictly TMCC experience will answer your question.

Rick (with the K)

[pmilazzo]

See my responses to your questions in BLUE below:

I have a question with regard to power requirements for the layout below. This will be the Christmas layout in the living room and consists of two separete (but connected by switches) loops + sidings for second train. All trains are TMCC equipped and will be operated via the TMCC remote. My desire is to have two trains running per loop (4 trains total). I have one TMCC CAB-1 controller and one TMCC Command Base. I also have two (2) 80 watt (CW-80) transformers. My questions are these

1. Are the two CW-80s enough watts to run 4 trains on the two loops if I put one transformer per loop?

Yes. No Problem. I do the same thing on my layout. You may want to have a few power drops per loop to ensure no losses via track connections.

2. If the loops are joined by switches (i.e., electrically connected) will the single TMCC Command Base be able to communicate with the trains on either loop?

Yes, again. You only need one TMCC Command Base.

3. I was wondering if instead of the CW-80s, I should get a 180 watt PowerHouse coupled to a Direct Lockon (both shown below) and will this eliminate the need for a "TMCC Command Base"?

No. The Direct Lockon is really a very fast circuit breaker for a 180 watt PowerHouse. You will still need a TMCC Command Base. The Direct Lockon and Powerhouse would replace the need for 2 CW-80s.

4. Additionally, I would like to add the switch controller to operate the switches and the block controller to electrify the sidings when desired, both shown below. Will these work with the 80 watt CW-80s or #3 above; or ???

Yes. No problem.

By the way, this is one very nice layout design!

[rkneisel]

Thanks Paul. I should have waited for someone to respond who used the CW-80's.

Rick

[rick486]

Thanks Paul (pmilazzo) sooooo much for your invaluable info. I really appreciate it. I think I'll try to go with my existing CW-80s to save $$$ unless I blow the circuit breakers---my track and switch order will break the budget...I already have quite a bit of track as last year the layout was a similar double loop but it was two dog-bones with manual switches that the trains just drove thru to operate.

I'm thinking instead of buying the "block" 5 inch sections I need, I'd cut a slot (Mototool w carbide disk) through the rail on a diagonal right at the underside tab soz each section would still have a tab to hold it in place. I think that would work if I cut the middle rail for the block sections (sidings) and the outside rail for the red-green signal operations (2 planned)

The layout was put together using software downloaded from http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html They have a free try before you buy but you're only limited to 50 pieces of track/switches. It's a nice inexpensive system for planning a layout and even gives you a complete list of track inventory for your design.

The right side of the layout is where the Christmas tree goes...it'll be up on cinderblocks with a "snow" mountain tunnel system underneath (the dotted lines on the layout). I hope to have it up and running by Dec so would love to have club members out for a look if desired.

Rich

[rbigliardi]

Rich, An additonal note about the CW-80 transformers. If you are running older passenger cars with current guzzling lights, it will run one train at the most. I have a Williams set with a dual motor unit, dummy unit, and 6 cars. I had to remove 2 light bulbs for the CW-80 to handle it. There is no breaker to 'blow' as such. It will sit there and retrigger itself. I would go ahead and try it, and if its not quite hefty enough, then look for alternate solutions (remove a car or 2, etc).

[tbrook]

Rich, you have had a lot of good advice for your layout. The following may help you to account for all power draws on your layout.

Each motor in your engines use 25-30 watts. Each incandescent bulb uses approx. 5 watts. Engines may contain 1-2 motors. Passenger cars almost always use 2 bulbs. In the modern TMCC/Legacy engines the headlight is usually an LED so no power draw to calculate there. Add the number of motors to the number of incandescent bulbs including those in the switch heads and include the Red or Green that is on in the switch controller to get the total watt needed.

As for the TMCC base unit, as long as the ground, outside rails, are connected together the TMCC/Legacy signal passes into each loop no matter how much track or loops you have. Hope this helps to calculate usage 'by the numbers.'

[rick486]

Thanks everyone for the advice....I finally hooked everything up to the two CW-80w to the two loops via the TMCC RC Block Switch and 3 out of four engines ran fine with two trains per loop. However the UP Big Boy Lionmaster was such a current hog, it kept dying on the slopes and curves when another engine was also running....it did run fine by itself...I guess I'll have to get the Big Mambo power source.

[rick486]

Went to HobbyTown Kennesaw to get a zw after the guy over the phone told me the night before that it was $399 (less than internet)....went to pick it up and the price was the more usual $499....

I looked at an "MRC" transformer, 270w dual control, not as fancy as the ZW but only $330. I settled on the MRC for the price and the fact that it had acutal volt and amp meters for each channel... I've now hooked it up and it works great...am not having any "quitting" with the high amp Big Boy and running 4 trains on 2 loops plus a bunch of accessories just fine....

Thought I'd support our friends at HobbyTown rather than shop internet AND they were very helpful at making an intelligent decision.

Rich

[rick486]

See pictures of this layout under "Wiring Block Signal" this forum